Rant time.
Yep, another conundrum by players pushing the envelope.
In the tournament I was in this weekend (12 players), I unfortunately did something horrible in my past 15 years or so of Warhammer 40K. I came in last place!
Besides that, there was some interesting stuff going on, but the thing that got my goat the most apparently is a "real discussion" in some circles of 40K.
I assaulted a bodyguard Ogryn with a tooled up Mephiston, expecting to win, while Lemartes win in to assault the opponent's warlord.
Lemartes easily popped off the warlord, no big deal, he was just the head of the Catachans = Strakken himself!
Mephiston, on the other hand, could not even wound the Ogryn Bodyguard.
Why?
Because the Ogryn was wearing a halloween mask, giving him a 2++ save I was told.
Yep.
So that had me go into the actual codex to see what was going on.
Ogryn bodyguards have a base 5+ save.
If you give them one (Slab) shield (0 cost, takes up a slot), his 5+ goes down to a 3+. The other option is a different (Brute) shield, which grants a 4++ save (5 points, so the Ogryn is a 4++/5+).
If you give him a relic mask, the mask says it gives the user (infantry) a 4++ save, plus one per game a D3 wound restore.
So my opponent used the FREE shield, added the FREE mask, to claim he was now a 2++ Ogryn.
After reading it through, I'd have to say, Fu## you.
In all of Games Workshops current writing, there are saves, invulnerable saves, and FNP/resilient saves.
The cheap, FREE shield says it adds 2 to your save, not your invulnerable save or your FNP/resilient save.
The Ogryn should have been 3+/4++.
Period.
Undoubtedly if I'd brought it up to the TO, I felt like I'd have lost the argument of rules as bent versus rules as written, rules as implied, or rules as costed, rules as "more like guidelines" or whatever.
I did discuss it with my long-time Astra Militarum buddy after the day was done, and he agrees I got boned by it. Others said, "well, if he's wrong maybe it will be in a FAQ".
Now I know there are threads at Dakka, BOLS, and B&C that writers are trying to claim some form of miracle. A 2++ Ogryn. Using him to tank wounds for the character he stands with.
Just read the G-D words. "any" does not mean "insert word invulnerable here". The free shield is worded to take the 5+ down to a 3+.
Overall, I feel this is just WAAC'ers pushing the envelope to do something that was not intended to be done or written to be done. Its like when others were claiming you had to fire everything, even one strike missiles like HKMs, if the unit fired at all ("no holding back!"). Grrrr.
Regardless, I felt this game was played pretty loose by my opponent, he certainly did not get any sportsmanship score from me.
In the next opportune phase, Mephiston jumped away, then used a power to get even further away, and hid till the game's turn 3 end.
Lemartes, left in the open, was pretty much mortared to death.
Overall, as promised, I'm putting the Death Company-themed list away for a while. The next few weeks are planned to be at 1850 points. I've downloaded BattleScribe to my devise, and have been playing with it in oder to figure out how it works and such. It took a bit to figure some stuff out (while watching Sunday Night Football), but I already have a base list for this week's fun and such. It was interesting to see the details I could look up, something I did not expect.
Overall, there were other things that were important to some of my game losses, but those are best for a different day.
MING
Interesting. I ran into the same Ogryn Bodyguard/army. I just ignored it while my flamer armed units roasted all the infantry squads first turn via Strike from the Shadows.
ReplyDeleteI can see how the rule could go both ways. The relic Death Mask of Olanius gives a 4++. The Slabshield "adds 2 to save rolls."
Because the word Save isn't capitalized, you've got a loophole. Yuck.
Best way to kill it? Shoot /hit the character he's guarding. The Ogryn takes mortal wounds if he soaks them from the character, no saves against those.
GW is only bolding key words, and save vs invulnerable save vs FNP save are not key words and are not used interchangeably anywhere. They have been clear to use terminology in this regard, except where it is being apparently used as a loophole.
DeleteRegardless, its stupid to think you can create a 2++ character for free, just because. Overall, I'd watch out for it.
May be dumb but they FAQ'd the same rule from another unit. Key words only apply to things like faction and unit keywords. (bottom of the datasheet) No such thing as FNP now and all abilities we call FNP are not a save. Core rules are very clear that an Invulnerable Save is a save. In fact they call out the other as "Regular Save"
DeleteIt does indeed work that way granting the model and effective 2++ save. They FaQ ‘d this same thing via thousand sons rubric marines. They have a similar ability that adds 1 to saving throws from damage 1 attacks. FAQ says this applies to the 5++ invulnerable save as well.
ReplyDeleteSo your opponent was correct.
LOL, so if it means its a boost if you twist the words, its good to go, and if its not FAQ'd but something unrelated from another faction is FAQ'd you are good to go too, but remember its all rules as written except when you want it to be? OK, I'm up with that...
ReplyDeleteWell Well well. Lookee at the new FAQ for Astra Militarum. Apparently GW has determined to go with what I was proposing. The slab shield does not change invulnerable saves. So if I got my thoughts right, the 5+/4++ Halloween-masked Bodyguard Ogryn becomes 3+/4++.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at other stuff in the FAQs now...interesting things here and there....